Tuesday, July 01, 2008

why am i so liberal?

last night one of my best friends from high school came across my blog. after spending a couple hours looking it over last night, he called me this morning to ask me why i am so liberal. his question was posed out of interest and not out of criticism (i think). i joking told him to read the scriptures for the answer, and that i would give him a brief synopsis of what i meant.

i do not profess here to offer the only exegesis of any scriptures used, nor am i claiming here that all christians/mormons should believe likewise.


here are my views on various so-called 'liberal' things.

-war - "therefore renounce war and proclaim peace" (d&c 98:16). while i am not a absolute pacifist (though maybe i should be), i believe that there are very few justifications for war. in fact i believe that most wars participated in by the nephites in the book of mormon were wrongfully waged. in the end, they only beget more war and strife. it is the example of the anti-nephi-lehites who went against the warhawk nephites and refused to battle that actually changed hearts and created peace.

-poverty - "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: ... Naked, and ye clothed me" (matt 25:35,36). "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor" (mark 10:21) "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them." (moses 7: 18). "And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift." (4 nephi 1:3). "And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish. " (mosiah 4:16) i could go on and on and on with scriptures discussing our moral and divine duty to eliminate poverty. it is the most discusses sin throughout all of the scriptures. more than sexual sins, pride, theft, lying, blaspheme, and all other sins combined. we often claim to be a christian nation, and yet we lead all industrialized nations in widening the gap between the rich and the poor. economic despair places so many citizens in virtually (and actual) slavery. while we are swimming in our money pens, thousands of children across the world are painfully starving to death. supposed free-trade and free-market capitalism are only making things worse. i believe we need to change our economic policies to shorten the gap between the rich and poor and lift those in need out of their suffering.

global warming - "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (gen 1:28). while i believe that we have a divine duty to take care of the earth (there is more in the d&c about this), i believe that the human costs of global warming are even greater. that the earth goes through an atmospheric carbon cycle is no longer questioned. that the increasing carbon levels in our atmosphere will have a major effect on humanity is not questioned. all that is questioned is our role in adding to the carbon in our atmosphere. eventually the earth's volcanos will burn and expunge buried carbon back into the atmosphere making it hardly inhabitable by humans. the scientific community is 90% sure that our burning of carbon fuels is accelerating the process and bringing what ought to happen in the next several thousand years into the foreseeable centuries ahead of us. 90% is a pretty high number and each month science is becoming even more sure about our impact in a warming climate. things have to change.

health care - "I was sick, and ye visited me" (matt 25:36). i don't recall jesus charging the sick and afflicted for healings. the united states is the one of the only 1st world countries that does not guarantee health care for all of its citizens. in our country, 1/3 of bankruptcies are due to medical costs. our privatized and for-profit health care leaves millions uninsured to suffer and die. families are forced to gamble with their health, unable to pay the expensive insurance premiums where 30% of the pay does not even go to medical costs, but rather to advertising and ceo pay. those who oppose univeral healthcare often point to our country's advanced medical technology, not realizing that while saving the few rich, we are unnecessarily ignoring the many poor.

immigration - "I was a stranger, and ye took me in" (matt 25:35). recently the first presidency asked elder marlin k jensen to address the utah congress and plead that they use compassion as they sought a resolution to the immigration problem. at the same time, republican presidential candidates were fighting over whose immigration plans seemed less like amnesty. we will always have an immigration policy to exclude others if we have foreign economic policies that hurt our neighbors and crush their economies. not only do we need to be more compassionate to the strangers who are trying to feed and clothes their families, but we also need to strive for economic policies that don't oppress them in the first place.

abortion - "Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons involved have consulted with their local church leaders and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct." (from lds.org). a decision is a choice. while i believe that most abortions are immoral, i do not believe that i have the right to make that decision for others. i cannot know or understand the struggle that someone faces who has an unwanted pregnancy whether from rape, incest, or stupid decisions. the only arguments against abortion are almost always religious in nature and we ought not to base our laws on our religious beliefs. whether or not a zygote, embryo, or 4 month fetus is a human being cannot be established outside of religious beliefs and we constitutionally cannot say that one religious (or non-religious) belief is better than another in establish our laws. the choice of an abortion should be that of the individuals and god, not the state. roe vs. wade actually protects the rights of women who become pregnant from rape and incest, or whose lives are in danger. overturning roe vs wade would likely take away those rights. as far as i'm aware, the church has not recently entered into the political abortion debate, yet so many mormons believe it ought to be banned. rather, i believe we need to focus more on preventative measures and sex education. we need to work together to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies.

captial punishment - (what would jesus do?). we do not live the old testament's rules and regulations and we ought not to when lwp (life without parole) is available, playing a function in protecting society that was unavailable in biblical times. i do not see how capital punishment would fit within jesus's gospel of love. it is a fact that the death penalty does not deter crime; it is not cost-effective (killing to save some bucks seems evil anyways); nor does it provide a function to protect society that lwp does not. instead the death penalty says that the right to life is not necessary, but is rather contigent and created by man and not god. the united states trails only china in the number of executions in advanced nations.

prison reform - "I was in prison, and ye came unto me" (matt 25:36). likewise, i believe are prison system needs some drastic reform. we have a higher percentage of our citizens in prison than any other nation. our recidivism rates are also higher than any other nation. this is largely because we too often see prison as simply a place of punishment and seperation. our prisons are a closet corner and mattress where we can stuff our dirty laundry. instead of just hiding away our criminals, we need to focus more on the economic and social disparity that too often leads to a life of crime. furthermore, we need to follow europe's prison model of reform through education, counseling, and employment.

same-sex marriage - (the scriptures, especially lds scriptures, are silent on this issue). there is only one verse in all of the standard works that explicity condemns homosexuality, and even that is unrelated to gay and lesbian marriages. i'm sorry, but i just plain disagree with church leaders on this issue. i feel it is very unfortunate that the church is fighting this battle. in fact i am sometimes angry that the church is more than willing to get into this political arena for 'moral' reasons where there is no scriptural justification while all of the above moral issues have a plethora of scriptural justification for pushing a moral agenda.

while all of the above were accompanied with religious arguments, there are even more non-religious arguments that i can tag on. i hope that helps and gives you some understanding as to where and why i stand on these issues.


  1. "in fact i am sometimes angry that the church is more than willing to get into this political arena for 'moral' reasons where there is no scriptural justification"

    As Latter-day Saints, we believe in MODERN revelation. We don't have to justify all of our beliefs on ancient scripture. The leaders of our church are in as much communication with God as those who wrote the scriptures. Perhaps we ought to trust them.

  2. anonymous coward,

    i also believe in modern revelation. however, i also believe that our prophets and leaders are human beings just like us. they aren't perfect, and neither are they perfect in trying to understand the will of god. they often strongly disagree with each other - believing on both sides that they know what god wants. i just happen to disagree here. that does not mean i disregard what they say, i need to take their words into account and pull as much as i can from them. whether or not you agree with them about ssm, it should be clear that we need to work better on strengthening families. i just believe that the biggest threat to the family is not two men who deeply love and care for one another, but rather the economic strain placed on families that are removing the parents from their children's lives. the scriptures are unwavering about the detriment that economic disparity plays on societies and families.

  3. I agree, narrator, with both your post and your response to the comment. I wholeheartedly agree that more focus should be place upon the disparity between rich and poor, and the condemnation that is found all throughout scriptures on the subject.

  4. "anonymous coward"
    teeheehee, that's too funny.

    Loyd, I thought your arguments were weak and I'm thinking it was just a rushed, summary of a dozen papers you've written on the different topics. I don't believe that the scriptures inspired you to be Liberal. Not at all. You're not that spiritual. (which is fine, neither am I a lot of the time) And I think that is the true reason you feel the way you do.

    To use the scriptures to justify your political views was......boring to say the least.

  5. Loyd,

    When I read your post I thought similar to Nancy, but more along the lines of "this isn't why you believe as you do." Those scriptures may be good argumentative support for what you believe, but are not why you believe. I believe the why is more fundamental. I don't know why, but I would say that you are someone who hates to be a sheep and that helps form how you think to a certain extent.

    As far as what you believe, I agree about all but SSM. Marisa actually was emailing back and forth on this subject about if we should be for or against it as a church and I stated that I think the church and the church leaders are against it (and uniformly) because it is a perversion of the most sacred and important thing there is - the marriage between a man and a woman and their becoming one. But, we don't focus on that because we can't use that for legislation so our arguments stray to other things that aren't good legs to stand on. I have always said that SSM is one battle we will lose b/c there are no real arguments against it other than a moral one.

    Nancy - You are too funny. I admire how you can say it as you see it.

  6. carson and nancy(lucy),

    while those specific scriptures may not be the sole reasons as to why i feel these ways, i believe that they are examples of how the broader gospel of christ must be implemented. as you both should well know, i don't like the idea of doing something just because someone tells me i should (even god). furthemore, when it comes to christ's message, i think it is largely nonsensical. i cannot love someone just because jesus told me to love one another. that love must come from within myself. so then each of the verses i give are not the specific reasons as to why i am the way i am, but rather they are scriptural instances or applications of the broader gospel message that i feel i want to do because of prompting from "the greatest thing ever."

  7. I thought this post was very well put, and I really enjoyed reading it.
    With my family I avoid political discussions at all costs. My family is SUPER CONSERVATIVE. While I'm not as liberal as you are:) I really don't fit in well with my family. My political views are very different from theirs and it also affects my gospel views. Anyways, I hate feeling like the oddball, but I can't help the way I believe.
    I just wanted to say I appreciate your views, and I enjoy reading your blog. Thanks!

  8. Loydo, you're brilliant.

    beautifully written, insightful and inescapable.

  9. well i do not agree with lucy that your aruments were rushed. brief and to the point, but not rushed. you know how i feel about having current phrophets. they are OUR phrophets more than any of the past ones. so, even though as a church we progress and things change, we still must have faith that what comes from the pulpit is what the Lord wants us to hear.

  10. no. this post wasn't rushed. in fact it took much much valuable time that i probably should have spent elsewhere. my friend brandon asked me for a short e-mail to expand what i meant when i told him to read the new testament for the answer.


    are you misspelling 'phrophets' on purpose (after laughing about you doing it over the phone a couple nights ago)?

    a:"'ph' isn't always pronounced with an 'f' sound, like in 'prophet'."
    l: "huh? spell 'prophet' for me."
    l:"spell it again."
    a:"haha. whoops. loyd, you are so smart and sexy and the pretty much the greatest thing that has ever happened on this planet."
    l:"yeah, i pretty much am."

    and yes, they are our prophets, but i believe we need to critically engage them as we would the scriptures or any other source. in fact, i think we are divinely obligated to study things out and decide how we utilize them. i don't think the battle for our agency was fought in our pre-mortal lives so that we could come to earth, relinquish that agency, and have someone tells us what to do.

    and as you are aware, the whole problem of past prophets vs. current prophets is largely the problem of the paper i am now working on.

  11. Great post, Loyd, and a great summary of a bunch of issues. I think you do a really good job of tying your beliefs together (and I think it's irrelevant the order in which you developed them).

    So, as far as my own opinion, here's why I'm not a liberal (and by that I mean left-wing, not liberal in the classical sense) as you:

    "a decision is a choice. while i believe that most [insert issue here] are immoral, i do not believe that i have the right to make that decision for others. ... the only arguments against [issue] are almost always religious in nature and we ought not to base our laws on our religious beliefs. ...we constitutionally cannot say that one religious (or non-religious) belief is better than another in establish our laws. the choice of an [issue] should be that of the individuals and [whatever god they believe in], not the state."

    I absolutely agree in every one of your examples as far as how an individual believer should apply that belief, but I really wish that the government weren't involved in all of these issues. I wish we could do the right (as in correct) thing in the private sector without the government needing to enforce that belief. However, whether we can act righteously or not I think that the government should let people be free to apply whatever beliefs they have.

    What I think is ironic about the right-wing vs. left-wing debate on these issues is that the right-wing so often does use religious beliefs to justify legislations, yet they are imposing the policies that are contrary to their professed beliefs. If the right-wing really tried to impose Christian values they'd probably be more like the left-wing.

    And since the SSM issue is being debated, I'd just like to point out that this is the only issue on which you've deviated from the orthodox Mormon doctrine. (Maybe it's more comfortable to debate that issue because it's the only one where orthodox beliefs don't lead people to the same conclusions that you've shared.) The same as with the other issues, though, I think the government should let people live "according to the dictates of [their] own cconscience", and the Church shouldn't encourage the government otherwise.

  12. Church Leaders have made sure that "one man-one woman" political proposals (Laws, Amendments) are supported OVER THE PULPIT in Sacrament Meeting. That's the voice of The Lord speaking to you, me, all of us. Not just Mormons, and especially not just conservative Republicans. "Those who have ears to hear let them hear."

  13. mars,

    brigham young taught the adam-god doctrine OVER THE PULPIT. john taylor taught a never-ending practice of polygay OVER THE PULPIT. joseph fielding smith taught young earth creationssim OVER THE PULPIT. ezra taft benson taught nonsensical and blatantly false conpiratoral anti-communism-ism OVER THE PULPIT. it doesn't mean anything.

  14. Being over the pulpit doesn't make it the voice of the Lord. It's the voice of the Lord if it's taught by and with the Spirit of the Lord.

    No matter what the Lord views marriage, that doesn't give us the right to force that view upon others.

  15. PS: I realize that the parenthetical sentence in my first comment isn't exactly clear.

    I was just imagining people going through your list of supposedly liberal political stances and realizing that you were right about what LDS doctrine teaches, until they finally reached the last one and were able to say, "Aha! I can argue with him about same-sex marriage!"

  16. People can justify sin in innumerable ways. But at the end of the day, they are still justifying sin.

    People can cast doubt on the Lord's anointed all they want. But at the end of the day, they're still wrong.

    There's a special place reserved for liars.

  17. mars,

    hmmm. so instead of responding to the criticism, you just cast judgments on others and personal insults.

    is that how you want to play?

    "There's a special place reserved for liars."

    let me guess... they are forced to spend eternity in a room with you?

  18. P.S. As far as Loyd's "stances", he uses general scriptures to support general stances, ignores other scriptures, and then warps the whole thing to later fake support of his ridiculous liberal stances. A perfect example of "the doctrines of men, mingled with scripture". Also the reason that so many times the leaders of the Church have spoken out against "intellectualism" that puts a person's own views above that of God's, as that is a great power that Satan wields over prideful humans.

    -WAR- The Lord himself has commanded war in numerous instances. Just read the scriptures. OLD TESTAMENT: The 12 Tribes of Israel are commanded to conquer the people and lands of Caanan. The Anti-Nephi-Lehis of the Book of Mormon would have been completely destroyed except for the protection of righteous armies. Their sons later became righteous warriors in the Army of Helaman. And the wars of the Nephites were justified by the Lord in every example in which they defended themselves, their lands, their wives and their children. Nephi himself was commanded to kill Laban.

    -POVERTY- Nowhere in the scriptures is "Capitalism" or "Free Trade" rebuked. The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that the American Constitution was Inspired by the Almighty. Whereas Russian Communism has failed. Study the Church's Law of Consecration- It's based off of work, not merely people given something for nothing.

    -GLOBAL WARMING- The Lord wants us to take good care of the Earth and all of our resources, not waste resources worshiping at the altar of a false religion that doesn't exist. Spend that money to do good, not make liars like Al Gore millionaires for peddling anti-scientific nonsense.

    -HEALTH CARE- I don't recall Jesus running a country. Loyd confuses personal responsibility with that of the government. It's the government's job to spend as little money as possible save it be protecting our rights and liberties, not to baby us, feed us, and clothe us while we remain idle. No such government could continue to exist.

    -IMMIGRATION- One of the basic Articles of Faith in our Church teaches that we obey the Laws of the Land. I have never met anyone that has any issue with LEGAL immigration. I have never met anyone who applauds breaking the law.

    -ABORTION- The Church preaches against Abortion as murder, save it be to protect the life of the mother, period. In old testament times, the Lord commanded that both Adultry and Pre-Marital Sex be punished by death.

    -CAPITAL PUNISHMENT- Jesus commanded to Moses that Capital Punishment be a major part of the official law of the Israelites. The Lord commanded that murderers be put to death, that adulterers be put to death, that harlots be put to death, that gays be put to death, that those having sex with animals be put to death. The 2nd-greatest sin is Murder, which cannot be forgiven in this life as it permanently ends another's freedom of choice and ability to repent, and Capital Punishment is the Lord's punishment for Murderers.

    -PRISON REFORM- Read the Old Testament to study their punishment system, including prisons. All of Loyd's views were completely unsupported.

    -SAME SEX MARRIAGE- The Lord has told The World through his Prophets and Apostles that Marriage is Ordained of God and can only be between One Man and One Woman. And sorry Bryant, but The Church urges it's members to vote AGAINST any gay marriage laws or amendments, and FOR any laws or amendments that make sure that Marriage be one man-one woman only. It's not only our Right, but also our DUTY. And not only this, but only those who make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom will be allowed to be married and have children eternally. All of marriages are null and void, dissolved immediately at death. Until then, the Lord wishes us to protect our families and countries from these Abominations, and has clearly spoken so on the subject.

  19. mars,

    why do you even come to my blog?

    anybody who knows me also knows that i don't think every inch of scripture is inspired. just like prophets today can be wrong, the ones in the past could be wrong as well. i take the acts of christ in his mortal ministry to be the key in interpreting the rest of the scriptures. if you disagree, that's fine. i don't care. i believe jesus taught that the two greatest commandments are to love god and love your neighbor (the latter being an elucidation of the first). if a scripture or prophet blatantly goes against this, then it needs to be heavily evaluated and possibly kicked out (such as joshua ordering the israelites to slaughter innocent men, women, and children in the name of god). my belief in god's love is incompatible with this tale. and my belief in god being love and christ being the revelation of that love requires me to question anything that goes against it.

    to respond to you:

    the book of mormon is the record of those who did not prosper in the land. we need to read it as such. every war effort in the book of mormon led to more war. moroni's wars were no exception. as i said in my initial post, i am not a strong pacifist. perhaps there are some justified wars, however they are few and far between. and i believe that the anti-nephi-lehites are the example of how we ought to be. yes it's hard. yes we may suffer in the process, but christ's gospel wasn't meant to be easy or anything close to it. this is why christ's apostles were astonished when christ told them that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. his apostles responded "then who can be saved?" they saw christ's requirement as something impossible, to which christ responded that with god it can be possible. the same goes with war. i believe the ultimate requirement of christ would be a refusal to raise a sword (or gun, or bomb, etc) at another, to which we would respond "then who can be saved?"

    povery - a system that creates poverty is constant rebuked throughout the scriptures. hmmm.. which system does that? i'm not arguing for soviet communism. any marxist would tell you that the soviet union did things completely wrong. i'm not even advocated marxism. however, i am advocated economic adjustments that prevent a system promoting a growing divide between the rich and poor. it's amazing that so many ignoramuses are so quick to jump to a blanket criticism of soviet communism whenever our current and capitalistic state (one which adam smith would have abhored) is criticized.

    global warming - ummm... 90% of the scientific community is anti-scientific? your boyfriends george bush jr and john mccain are also claiming that there is a human-caused global warming crisis that must be dealt with. you and any other critics out there are getting further and further out on a limb on this one.

    health care - says you. christ may not have been leading a country, but he sure seems to have established one in the americas that filled these purposes. we socialize education, the postal service, police services, fire services, highways, parks, playgrounds, libraries, gyms, olympics, celebrations, and so many other things, but for you socializing health care would be going to far and against god's will?

    immigration - "I have never met anyone who applauds breaking the law." we just celebrated independence day. our country, our churches, our people have been praising our forefathers who broke the law. furthermore, i am not advocated breaking the law. i am advocated what marlin k. jensen did to the utah congress and pleading for more compassion and empathy when establishing immigration law and reform.

    abortion - the church teaches abortion is religiously immoral (there is nothing in the church's website about abortion being murder). furthermore, the church has not advocated the nonsensical overturning of roe v. wade, nor has it become actively involved in politicking against it. abortion laws based on religious beliefs are unconstitutional. hmmm... this is all what i said in my initial post, but you decided to go on some odd tangent that didn't even respond to what i said.

    also, there is a long list of sins that were punishable by death. a son could be killed for disrespecting their father. you could be killed for saying the wrong name. pre-marital sex isn't actually mentioned, but rather married women could be punished by death for having sex outside of their marriage because they were considered property in the old testament, just a step above a slave (who could also be punished by death for going against a slaveowner). we don't practice the old testament codes anyways. the gospel of love over-rid that.

    capital punishment - see above, unless you are taught by your rabbi in temple and avoid eating bacon for religious reasons.

    prison reform - there isn't a prison system established in the mosaic law (which makes sense because that law was given while the israelites were a nomadic people and a prison system would not have been feasible - which might explain their need for some capital punishments to protect soceity). either way, as you should have known by reading the book of mormon and the new testament, the old law was done away with by the establishment of the gospel of love. you should try reading your scriptures more often.

    ssm - and i disagre with some church leaders here. plain and simple. furthermore, i think your rhetoric shows how unfortunately hate-filled you are. you want to call them abominations, yet i'm assuming that you don't consider bacon and the dozens of other abominations in the scriptures abominations.

    on a side note, as many of our republican and right-wing leaders have taught us, those who seem fight the strongest with the harshest language against same-sex marriage are the same men having sex with other men on the side. in case you don't understand what i'm implying, i'm saying this. it wouldn't surprise me to find out that you are a closet homosexual who sneeks away from his wife and daughter to fulfill his sexual desires with male prostitutes. you should probably confess that to your bishop.

  20. ugghh. i was really trying hard to make this post benign and uncontroversial, but mars (the closet homosexual) ruined that.

  21. You know what I hate about when the two of you start arguing? It's that you both start being jerks and so not only am I worried about being in the middle of an argument between two of my good friends, but I end up embarrassed for you both.

    Case in point: Marshall says rude bigoted things about homosexuals and so Loyd attempts to insult him by saying that Marshall is homosexual. You end up being insulting to each other and to homosexuals.

    Though, I have to admit, it was worse last time. Maybe I should just hope that it'll get steadily better until you can both disagree civilly.

  22. So in other words, Loyd, your theory is "Screw God, His Church, and His Prophets, I'll believe whatever I want to."

    The question isn't why I come to your blog, but why, if you are so admittedly STUPID, you write a blog at all.

    And Bryant- I'm disappointed in you for calling me names. If a "bigot" views sin as sin and doesn't think it's right or even okay to promote wrong-doing, I accept that as a compliment. There are too many in the world today who aren't willing to stand for something. The world today preaches that you must accept everything everyone does. God does not. "Judge righteously".

  23. mars,

    i don't think that way. please don't visit my blog anymore. and if you do, don't comment. all comments from you are just going to be erased from now on.

  24. This is funny. Once again Loyd takes the attitude of, "I only want you here if you agree with me." What a closed minded liberal you are. Why can't you agree to disagree at times? Why must you attack those that disagree with you?

  25. anonymous coward,

    i'm fine with people disagreeing with me. people post disagreements all the time. it's the immature and hostile nature of people like you and mars that i don't care for.

  26. What's more hostile and immature? Saying that someone is incapable of tolerating a difference of opinion, or calling someone a closet homosexual?

  27. was i referring to your last comment? no. perhaps you are some other anonymous coward and not the one who habitual posts rude comments on my blog. if that's the case, then i'm not referring to you, though i still find your criticism weak and pathetic considering the many who leave thoughtful and courteous, yet disagreeing comments.

    i'm really tired of anonymous comments. from now on they will be promptly deleted.

  28. wow! great postings and arguments everyone! (except annymous and then the rude comments) loyd, haha about my mispelling. i think i like phrophet better, so i´ll go that way from now on. sound out the ¨h¨its fabulous! and regarding our conversation the other day regarding this post: i don´t believe in ¨truth¨. infact the more i learn from other people, see their lives, see bad things, good things, whatever, ¨truth¨ becomes more and more of a mystery to me. as you say, things that phrophets spoke to be ¨truth¨has been overturned or quietly swept out of church teachings. i said to my sister that i had no faith becuase nothing makes since. nothing that happens in this life makes since. babies are raped and murdered, liars and theives are ceo´s making millions, people that work VERY HARD their entire lives are left with nothing to show for it.

    why? we call it a test to prove our faith. well, i do not beleive in explanations becuase the explanations are just ways to make us ok with something that really makes no since to us.

    for instance all the reasons why black men could not hold the priesthood. oh they were decendants of cain, they were not righteous enough in the pre-x. blah blah. and now are any of these things taught anymore? not by many. and i don´t know why you would believe something so hateful of our Father.

    so what i´m trying to say in a round a bout way is that there are no explanations. sure, it is a test...and true faith is not needing all those explanations for why something is.

    i´m not saying not to question, of course we should pray, meditate, ponder, etc about the qualms we may have with things given to us. absolutley. but what happens when the phrophet says something so odd and foreign to you that you don´t accept it and miss out on something huge? for instance, the members that could not practice polygamy and left the church. then the members that couldn´t let polygamy go...and left the church?

    to me its not about ¨truth is this¨but about ¨when is truth¨ or ¨truth is when...¨ God is truth, and since my direct conduit to him is a bit grimy i must trust his mouthpeice.

  29. ang,

    and it is for those reasons that i usually feel that categories of 'truth' and 'doctrine' just need to be tossed out. in my view, they are more divisive than anything else.


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