Friday, October 23, 2009

Being pushed to the edge.

As many of you who either know me personally or have followed this blog know, the whole Prop 8 fiasco was a trying moment for me and a challenge to my faith that I had once lost and had worked hard to regain. Last November I thought it was all over, but time after time I found the Church bringing it back into the foray with their disingenuous complaints of victimhood and mythological claims of persecution. When most everyone else is ready to move on, Elder Oaks, the LDS Newsroom and the marching sheep who unquestioningly buy into their every word drudge up their nonsensical persecution complex and dream themselves up in the their pretended guises of false heroes. In their view they are compared to the civil rights movements of the past who were violently persecuted for enabling rights for others. In reality they are the barely slighted persecutors who fought and disabled the rights of the minorities.

After Oaks took his much deserved beating, I thought and hoped things would die away...

...But no, the LDS Newsroom blog decides today to post a link to an article from the ultra-conservative Heritage Foundation in attempt to support the Church's latest pathetic cries of persecution. I'm not going to go into the post, which I'm sure others will do more fully. I just wanted to give one sentence from the opening paragraph which exemplifies the utter stupidity, naivete, and falsity of their claims... and the utter stupidity and naivete and disingenuity of the LDS Newsroom and anyone who wants to take them seriously now.


"Arguments for same-sex marriage are based fundamentally on the idea that limiting marriage to the union of husband and wife is a form of bigotry, irrational prejudice, and even hatred against homosexual persons."

Here is the real fundamental basis behind arguments for same-sex marriage: Homosexuals are persons and deserve the rights of their heterosexual counterparts.

That is it. It's a positive argument.

Now I'm sure that some people may feel the way that it was phrased by the Heritage Foundation, but to say that is what the arguments is based on is utterly stupid. I, like many people, realize that the denial of SSM by many is not done out of bigotry, irrational prejudice, and hatred, but is rather done for religious reasons that don't harbor the negative connotations of hate (though I agree that hate does play a role for some as well).To claim that supporters of SSM are basing their argument against a negative role of hate are simply making a rhetorical play to avoid the real positive argument of equality and civil rights that actual proponents of SSM have been making. They of course don't want to recognize that this is the actual argument because they don't want to recognize the SSM argument for what it truly is: a positive push for equality.

Now I know that the LDS Newroom Blog is not an official voice of the Church (and they explicitly state that they aren't), but the LDS Newsroom IS the official voice of the Church and by extension their blog reflects the opinions of the Church--and by extension, the opinions of the Church leaders.

I am sick and tired of Prop 8. I am sick and tired of the Church drumming up false cries of persecution based on Prop 8.

For some reason, this last straw pushed me to the edge and I'm not sure how I want to react. I haven't felt my faith in the Church threatened like this in a while.



  1. It must be the night for posts like this. I just wrote something kind of similar on my blog.

  2. We just watched a very thought provoking movie called, "For the Bible Tells Me So." It is worth a look at. It shows how the bible really doesn't say that being a homosexual is against God. And in my opinion even if it was they still deserve their civil rights. I am sick of the church taking a martyr role in this debate as well. How many homosexuals have been hurt and even killed in sex crimes.

  3. Interesting...are you saying that your cognitive dissonance with this issue can be summed up as saying 1) you are struggling with whether the church is true at all, 2) was true and has now gone astray, 3) was never the "one and only," but was your best path to the top of the mountain, yet it may not be your path anymore, or something else that I am missing?

    I agree, that their logic in that statement is faulty, but I don't think that you can fault the church or its members for not letting this die. The issue is not dead for either side. Are you saying your frustrated because the church didn't follow the "shut up because your stupid" wishes of the opposition?

  4. Carson, neither. Rather, things like this make me question how much, if at all, Oaks and other leaders of the Church are led by God anymore. It makes me question the 'christianity' of the Church when it seems more concerned with aligning itself with the so-called moral majority instead of the issues that Jesus actually said things about. It makes question the revelatory claims of the church when they don't claim things to be revelations.

    And no Carson, I'm not frustrated because the Church didn't follow your mythical "shut up because you are stupid" claim. I'm frustrated because of it's continued disingenuous cries of unwarranted persecution.

  5. That seems a lot like #2 of the 3.

    I'm sorry to hear that and wish there were something I could say. I know how you feel about the issue. It's either you or the church that is wrong since they aren't changing anytime soon on this. Just always keep a small window open for the possibility that you are, for whatever reason. Just don't hold this pebble so close that it looks like a boulder and blocks all other larger sure stones out.

  6. I wasn't surprised at the church's involvement in Prop. 8. The Proclamation on the Family kind of prepared me for that. But it is incredibly irritating when general authorities make the church a martyr. If you oppose gay marriage, then fine. But PLEASE do not compare the experiences of the church to the the experiences of blacks in the civil rights era. Experiences that we as a church did not try to mitigate (and in fact contributed to with the preisthood ban). FYI-There is a great article over at Mormon Matters last week on the experiences of blacks with the LDS church during that time. From everything I have read about the LDS church's experience with blacks, it is downright insulting to compare the two.

    I agree with you Lloyd that church authorities should really stop trying to demonize the motivations of homosexuals. If they want to oppose gay marriage, I can understand why. But the way in which they have gone about doing so has been divisive and misleading. No one has ackowledged the fact that most gay people don't want to get married to "destroy the family" but to actually have one. No one can fault them for wanting that.

    I think I read that Harry Reid recently said that he felt the church's involvment in Prop. 8 was innapropriate, and he hasn't been excommunicated yet. =) He's also been pretty vocal about ending DADT in the military. I find comfort in seeing a prominent member hold his own when it comes to things like this while still retaining and valuing his membership in the church.

  7. I read this and the first thing that occurred to me was the question, "Loyd, would you still be a Mormon if your church continued to endorse slavery and segregation."

    Then it occurred to me that you probably would. That realization made me a little sad. Let me explain why.

    Obviously you understand that your church's position is not merely theologically wrong but demonstrably harmful. In this regard, you are no different that your Mormon predecessors who privately endorsed racial equality but remained members of a church that actively persecuted good and decent people because they were black.

    Like you, they felt it was more important to be Mormon than to be principled.

    I'm sure they congratulated themselves when the Church finally caught up. I'm equally sure they never saw that their participation in the Church was a contribution to the Church's ability to harm.

    But the Church is not just a head. It is a body.

    The Mormon boot is heavy on the neck of your gay brothers and sisters, Loyd. Your weight contributes.

  8. I meant to say hate crimes not sex crimes in my comment. oops.


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